People run into these kind of problems everyday and we like to help, see if this helps you.
I swear I have torn through all of the posting. The only one that seemed to come close was this one. The problem I have is identical but it didn't seem to come to a conclusion.
http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=236546
I have a Amana/Goodman VCA30C2C AC unit and an American Standard Freedom 90 UX1B080A9421A furnace. My house is also zoned (2) with a Honeywell EMM-3 MiniZone panel.
The quick summary, since it is identical to the other post, is that the condenser AND fan run constantly. If I set either of the thermostats to COOL the blower comes on and cool air comes out. The house cools, the blower shuts off, but the condenser and condenser fan keep running. The only way I can shut it off is if I via the breaker.
From the other posts I've checked the contactor on the AC unit and it is working. I tested it by leaving the cover off, turned the power back on, and the contactor was "contacted". Also the zoning panel system LED shows when there are calls for heat and cool. There are no indicators on the panel that there is a problem. I do have two transformers. One is in the furnace and one is near the breaker box. I've tested the connections with a voltmeter and each are putting out power.
Here's the twist. I noticed this problem with the AC running all the time AFTER I replaced a pressure switch in the furnace. I can't tell you if the AC had this problem before or after I replaced the pressure switch. I'm wondering if while I was replace the pressure switch I touched a wire the wrong way and blew a relay or something similiar? I do know that I turned the power off at the breaker when I was working on the furnace.
I have pics of the unit and wiring but can't seem to add them to the posting. I'd be happy to email them to anyone who would like to take a look. Here is the link for the zone panel and my furnace. I have not been able to locate the manual for the AC.
***Funace***
http://www.americanstandardair.com/H...es_AUC_ADC.pdf
***Zone Panel***
http://customer.honeywell.com/techli...it/68-0237.pdf
I can't begin to say thank you for those who read, attempt, and maybe even solve my issue. It will be a great relief to get this fixed.
Thank you ! ! !
mike n
Too much AC
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The control wires to the condensing unit as you have realized are being fed 24v constantly as you have identified the problem starting when you worked on the furnace let's start there follow the two control wires in to the furnace and see if the stripped back area on one of them is up against the control wire going to the R terminal, if this is not the issue or just to simplify in cooling the Y terminal on your furnaces control board is just a place to tie the wires together you can take the wire off Y that comes from the condensing unit and the wire coming from your Y terminal on your thermostat/EMM and tie them directly together then if the problem continues you know that it has nothing to do with your furnace work but when something like this happens with control wiring always try to seperate the possibilities into smaller "bite size" chunks you have already determined the problem is not outside what I have told you will tell whether or not the problem is in the furnace, if not go to thermostat and take off the wire on the Y terminal if it still persists that leaves only the EMM
Ghost wire understood
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
O.K. now...
I was just able to see your hand-made schematic (the one on graph paper) I can now see where this ghost cable comes from...it comes from the condensing unit outdoors. These two wires end up on the contactor coil terminals of the condensing unit outside the house. They have to be fed 24V on a call for cooling from the furnace's terminal board. Who makes that call? terminals Y and C on the furnace's terminal board.
Well then, the red wire in this ghost cable gets connected to the C terminal on the furnace terminal board, while the white wire from the ghost cable gets connected to the Y terminal on the terminal board.
this should take care of your problem...I hope
__________________
Always listen to experts. They’ll tell you what can’t be done and why. Then do it!
Wiring Scheme
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe this will help. If not atleast it help me get my head around the wiring. I'm thinking the next thing I need to do is put a multimeter on the connections while the system is in cool, heat, and maybe even in the off position. I can also put the meter on the AC Unit in each of the scenarios.
__________________
I don't fix things myself to save money as it usually winds up costing more. I do it because I just want to know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You may disconnect that very same wire, which feeds one of the two terminals of the contactor coil, before turning the circuit breaker back to the ON position. Then, switch the breaker to ON...the motors should remain OFF. This would eliminate that contactor as the source of trouble.
Finally, with power still ON, touch the terminal of this yellow wire to the point from which it was disconnected. I expect the contacts of the contactor will pull in. You're handling here only 24V, nothing to be worried about.
My feeling is that you have a problem either at the furnace's board or the EMM zone controller, but want to put the condensing unit's contactor out of the way as the source of trouble.
Done and it did exactly as you said. The contactor clicked shut when I touched the wire back to the tab.
BTW, I had to ask: you have a top notch, 92.1% efficient,condensing-direct vent furnace indoors, matched to a seer-10 condensing unit outside, which is as low as it gets. How come?
It came with the place
I think you are right as I have the same feeling that it is something simple somewhere. I'll be honest and say I also have the nagging feeling it is something I did. Something simple that I didn't think much about when I did it and thus forgot I did it. Last night I couldn't help myself so I disconnected the Rh and Rc wires at the panel just to double check the connections. I found out that I was incorrect when I said I had two transformers. I was unscrewing it and since it is in a bad place that I can't see all that well a jumper fell out. Thus it is all connected to one transformer in the furnace.
Not sure if this helps but I left the jumper off and turned the power back on and sure enough, with the AC unit's breaker ON the fan(s) were NOT running. As soon as I put the jumper back in the fan started running constantly again.
__________________
I don't fix things myself to save money as it usually winds up costing more. I do it because I just want to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassidy72
I want to double check before I disconnect the yellow wire. You want me to disconnect it while it's running? I just want to make sure I disconnect the right one.
You may disconnect that very same wire, which feeds one of the two terminals of the contactor coil, before turning the circuit breaker back to the ON position. Then, switch the breaker to ON...the motors should remain OFF. This would eliminate that contactor as the source of trouble.
Finally, with power still ON, touch the terminal of this yellow wire to the point from which it was disconnected. I expect the contacts of the contactor will pull in. You're handling here only 24V, nothing to be worried about.
My feeling is that you have a problem either at the furnace's board or the EMM zone controller, but want to put the condensing unit's contactor out of the way as the source of trouble.
Nice pics.
BTW, I had to ask: you have a top notch, 92.1% efficient,condensing-direct vent furnace indoors, matched to a seer-10 condensing unit outside, which is as low as it gets. How come?
__________________
Always listen to experts. They’ll tell you what can’t be done and why. Then do it!
Trying to be proactive
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thought I would post these just in case they are helpful.
Zone Panel
Furnace Wiring
__________________
I don't fix things myself to save money as it usually winds up costing more. I do it because I just want to know.
Reply
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the quick reply. I attempted to answer your questions the best that I could below.
First things first: when you say the condenser and the condenser fan motor keep running I take it that you mean the "compressor" and the condenser fan motors...in other words, the two motors that are part of the unit that is installed outdoors. Please confirm
My bad. Yes the two motors in the unit outdoors runs constantly. I've left the breaker in the off position so the unit hasn't been running.
Try the following first:
From the thermostat, turn the system switch to OFF (the one that reads COOL-OFF-HEAT) and the fan switch to AUTO (the one that reads AUTO-ON).
Under normal circumstances, this should turn everything OFF, both, outdoors and inside the house.
If the outdoor motors (compressor and fan) are still ON, remove the cover, look for the contactor coil and pull/disconnect the YELLOW thermostat wire. This should de-energize the contactor coil, forcing its contacts to open and turn both motors OFF. Please confirm.
I set the thermostat to Off and Auto and yes the compressor and fan motors on the outside unit are still running. I want to double check before I disconnect the yellow wire. You want me to disconnect it while it's running? I have done numerous electrical projects (not much with air cond. and 220 lines) and I try my best to do the safety first thing. Is it required that I do it while it's running? I've included a pic. I circled the two yellow wires that I see. I just want to make sure I disconnect the right one.
A most weird problem.
First things first: when you say the condenser and the condenser fan motor keep running I take it that you mean the "compressor" and the condenser fan motors...in other words, the two motors that are part of the unit that is installed outdoors. Please confirm
If this is the scenario you have there, it is a wonder and a miracle that you have not lost your compressor motor yet.
Try the following first:
From the thermostat, turn the system switch to OFF (the one that reads COOL-OFF-HEAT) and the fan switch to AUTO (the one that reads AUTO-ON).
Under normal circumstances, this should turn everything OFF, both, outdoors and inside the house.
If the outdoor motors (compressor and fan) are still ON, remove the cover, look for the contactor coil and pull/disconnect the YELLOW thermostat wire. This should de-energize the contactor coil, forcing its contacts to open and turn both motors OFF. Please confirm.
I'll be looking forward to your feedback.
Yet another "AC fan runs constantly" post
Friday, March 7, 2008
Thursday, March 6, 2008
How to Green Up your Home the most effective way
As I always say Dollar for Dollar there is no more effective way to impact your Carbon Footprint than to properly upgrade your Home or Business HVAC System, here are some tips.
Greener Living: Small Steps, Big Savings
KANSAS CITY, Mo. _ Your contractor just outfitted your house with an array of solar panels, and soon the windmill will be up and running out back. Hey, you'll be off-grid by summer.
Not your story?
Then you're like most of us in terms of energy use, living in a regular house without any highfalutin green amenities.
Still, like most people, you'd rather not spend more money than you must on utility bills _ or suck up more energy resources than makes good sense.
Start by reducing home energy use.
Spring is a fine time to start making changes, during an energy-use lull between winter's chill and summer's swelter.
An estimated 25 percent of the United States' enormous energy bill is attributable to households. That's a big chunk, so even small changes by a lot of people result in significant overall reductions.
Individually, those small changes often amount to only small dollar savings. But if homeowners make gradual improvements, energy experts say, eventually they could cut their energy bills by as much as 50 percent.
So, start small, plan bigger.
"Do the simplest, low-cost things up front, and get those out of the way," said Jennifer Thorne Amann, co-author of "Consumer Guide to Home Energy Savings."
Then put yourself in an energy-savings frame of mind as the bigger decisions come along, from appliance purchases and beyond, Amann said.
AUDIT ME
Assessing the situation at your house is Job 1. That could mean an audit by a professional, but this is not like an IRS audit. There are no fines, and nobody's going to jail. Doing an online self-audit is another good way to start.
A professional house audit will take a few hours to perform and cost several hundred dollars. Get ready to hear about the "building envelope." (See glossary.)
Sharla Riead and her company, Hathmore Technologies in Blue Springs, Mo., conducts residential energy audits. A professional can reliably identify the highest priority improvements that will save the most in energy costs, she said.
There might be leaks in your house's ductwork, for instance. About 20 percent of a home's heating and cooling inefficiencies are related to the ductwork. Or the auditor might determine your attic insulation is fine but insulation is lacking in the basement.
And safety is a concern, Riead said. While you want to plug up a leaky house, you also want to be certain it's properly ventilated.
Homeowners can get help choosing a residential energy auditor through the Metropolitan Energy Center. Call the Home Energy Information Line at 816-835-7593. Also ask about a new program available to Missouri customers of KCP&L. Homeowners can get a rebate for audit costs provided they make an improvement recommended in the audit.
PLUG HOLES
Ever thought of all the places your house leaks air? A fireplace, for example, is a big hole in your house, and dampers don't always seal tightly.
At a recent remodeling show, Kristin Riott of Bridging the Gap, a Kansas City environmental organization, had on display what looked like a big black plastic pillow. It was a fireplace plug.
Susan Brown of the Energy Savings Store in Prairie Village, Kan., said the stoppers cost less than $60, an inexpensive way to reduce air leakage when not using the fireplace.
Amann said people often jump quickly to the conclusion that fixing a leaky house requires new windows. Actually, she said, because replacing a house full of windows is so expensive, it's tough to recoup the money in energy savings.
But if new windows are in the budget, she said, spend the extra money it takes to get high-efficiency windows that have earned the Energy Star label.
Amann, who has a 140-year-old row house in Baltimore, said she has newer windows but they weren't installed well. Her solution was a trip to the hardware store for caulk and weather-stripping.
"We did that ourselves," she said. "That and installing door sweeps are really simple things."
Now, think smaller holes, such as places where pipes, wires and cables enter the house. Often those spots aren't insulated well.
When Jason Jones, KCP&L's energy solutions manager, tended to his drafty house, he used spray foam insulation in such small holes and gaps. The foam expands and fills the crevices.
George Phillips, KCP&L's energy efficiency manager, took aim at his electrical outlets, which are also leaky. He unscrewed the wall plates, placed thin foam pads from the hardware store around the outlets and replaced the plates.
POWER OFF, FOR REAL
If you still think on is on and off is off, you're living in another era, back when TVs warmed up. And most people owned just one.
Nowadays, our "plug-in loads," as the experts say, are way up: multiple televisions, video game equipment, several computers with associated contraptions, chargers for personal gadgetry and so on.
One problem is that we don't turn them off, although it might seem like we do, Amann said with a laugh.
"I'm laughing because I'm looking around my home office, and it's a mass of wires and cords and little gadgets everywhere," she said. "I try to tame the little lights, to make them go away."
Those "little lights" and remote controls are signs that the machines stay on, if only a little bit. And plugged-in chargers, even if not attached to a piece of equipment at the other end, still draw power.
The solution is to either unplug stuff at the wall or, more practically, plug electronic equipment into power strips and switch off the strip when the equipment isn't in use.
"You actually can save on your electric bill by turning off all those things when you're not using them," said Dustin Jensen with the Metropolitan Energy Center.
USE IT BETTER
With a change of habits, most people can use the equipment they have more efficiently.
But first, experts say, get rid of appliances you don't really need. Refrigerators are one of the biggest energy consumers in typical houses, Riott said, so plugged-in but unused or little-used fridges and freezers should be the first to go.
Stove tops and ovens, like anything that heats up quickly, are also energy-intensive, much more so than a microwave oven. One hour of cooking time in an electric oven, for instance, can cost about 19 cents, while 15 minutes in a microwave costs only 3 cents.
"I try to use my microwave as much as I can for cooking," Riott said.
On the cleanup side, studies show a fully loaded dishwasher uses less energy than washing the same amount by hand. Use the dishwasher's light cycle and air-dry setting to improve efficiency.
When picking out new appliances, electronics and other equipment, buy those that are Energy Star rated, which means they are certified by a government program to be as much as 50 percent more efficient than standard products.
Heating and cooling are a home's biggest energy expense, so every opportunity should be taken to manipulate the thermostat.
Ceiling fans are a good deal in the summer, allowing homeowners to raise the thermostat by as much as 4 degrees, which saves a bundle on air conditioning.
But don't forget to turn them off when you're not in the room, Amann said. The air movement cools the skin but doesn't actually cool the room, so leaving fans on in an empty room is a waste.
As for thermostats, programmable ones reduce energy use.
"The advantage with the `programmable' is that when you get back from work or wake up in the morning, it's already bringing the temperature back to your comfort point," Jensen said. "Plus, you don't have to think about it."
Jones of KCP&L said programmable thermostats offer savings of up to 20 percent in heating and cooling costs. KCP&L will install a free one, a value of about $300, for customers who allow the company to alter their air conditioners' cycle time during peak demand periods.
Most people know by now that compact fluorescent lamps are much cheaper to operate than incandescent bulbs. How much?
On average, 75 percent more efficient, said Jensen of the Metropolitan Energy Center. About 90 percent of the electricity consumed by an incandescent bulb is given off as heat and only about 10 percent as light. Compact fluorescents are the reverse, he said. They also last much longer, five years on average.
A couple of caveats: For lights on dimmers and in three-way lamps, look for CFLs that say they will work for those applications. And remember that fluorescents have a tiny amount of mercury in them and so must be taken to a recycling center rather than thrown away.
SOLAR, GEOTHERMAL
The beginning of this story notwithstanding, quite a few folks are investing in what might be called highfalutin, high-tech energy solutions.
Riott of Bridging the Gap installed a geothermal heat pump system at her Prairie Village home. Such systems use the constant temperature of the Earth to operate and are pricey to install, typically $16,000 to $25,000. But Riott expects to cut her heating and cooling costs by two-thirds.
And Brown of the Energy Savings Store, which has expertise in solar installations, noted that people who can't afford expensive solar panels are drawn to a relatively inexpensive device, the SolarSheat, to help warm their homes in the winter. The panels are placed on an exterior, south-facing wall and cost about $2,500. Brown has one and likes it.
"It keeps your furnace from having to turn on so much," she said. "It's for people looking for something just a little more exciting than the usual efficiency tips."
___
RESOURCES
Air Conditioning and Heating Repair Made Easy $59.97
http://www.howtorepairairconditioners.com/
"Consumer Guide to Home Energy Savings" by Jennifer Thorne Amann, Alex Wilson and Katie Ackerly, $16.95.
Conduct a free, Home Energy Saver do-it-yourself audit: hes.lbl.gov.
Metropolitan Energy Center has information on residential energy auditors and area energy programs (816-531-7283, kcenergy.org).
KCP&L's "Energy Optimizer" free programmable thermostat program (1-866-882-4429); the "Cool Homes" program for air-conditioner inspection and rebates (1-866-276-9303); and the "Energy Analyzer" online home energy survey (kcpl.com).
Rocky Mountain Institute's "Home Energy Briefs": rmi.org.
American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy's "Home Energy Checklist for Action": aceee.org.
"A Consumer's Guide to Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy" by the U.S. Department of Energy: eere.energy.gov.
___
GLOSSARY
Blower door: A procedure used in home energy audits. A powerful fan is attached to an exterior door, and air is pulled from the house. An energy auditor rates the house's leakage or "infiltration" and identifies specific trouble spots.
Building envelope: The house's roof, walls, windows and foundation, the parts that separate the inside from the outside.
Duct blaster: A test of a home's ductwork for leakage. An instrument detects leaks as air is forced into the duct system.
Energy Star: A product rating program by the EPA and the Energy Department. An Energy Star designation means the product uses 10 percent to 50 percent less energy and water than standard products. Some builders are constructing Energy Star houses.
Infiltration: Accidental air leakage from your house. The Energy Department estimates the sources of leaks this way: 31 percent from floors, walls and ceilings, 15 percent from ductwork, 14 percent from the fireplace, 13 percent from plumbing penetrations, 11 percent from doors, 10 percent from windows, 4 percent from fans, 2 percent from electrical outlets.
Phantom power: The electricity used to power light displays and instant-on features of otherwise turned-off computers, TVs and other electronic equipment. It also refers to the lost power when chargers are plugged into an outlet but aren't charging.
R-value: A measure of a material's resistance to the transfer of heat through it. R-values describe building insulation. The higher the number, the better the insulation. For instance, a professional might recommend R-49 in ceilings and R-26 in walls.
___
DUCTS AND INSULATION
Leaky houses waste energy. A home energy audit will check ductwork and insulation in walls, ceilings and basements.
WINDOWS
Replace them? Depends. New windows are expensive, and it's difficult to recoup the cost in energy savings. Other improvements might be a priority.
REFRIGERATOR
Get rid of that plugged-in but often unused one in the garage or basement. Look for Energy Star appliances and electronics when buying new.
WATER HEATER
A blanket on an old one could help. As for tankless or demand water heaters, they save energy because they don't store water. But flow might not be adequate in busy households doing multiple hot-water tasks at the same time.
ELECTRONICS
Computers, stereos, TVs and other devices only look like they're turned off. Most are on, at least a little bit, all the time. Use power strips to shut them down completely.
LIGHT BULBS
Compact fluorescents, of course, but get to know Kelvin. The K value on the package tells you the color temperature. For instance, about 2800 K is "soft white," similar to a 60W incandescent bulb.
CEILING FANS
They will help in the coming air-conditioning season, allowing you to raise the thermostat several degrees. They work by cooling you, not the room, so turn them off when you leave.
FURNACE AND AC
Together they're the energy-suckers in your house _ 40 percent or more of a home's energy use. The myth is the bigger the AC unit the better. Oversized units don't cool correctly and cost more to operate.
Greener Living: Small Steps, Big Savings
KANSAS CITY, Mo. _ Your contractor just outfitted your house with an array of solar panels, and soon the windmill will be up and running out back. Hey, you'll be off-grid by summer.
Not your story?
Then you're like most of us in terms of energy use, living in a regular house without any highfalutin green amenities.
Still, like most people, you'd rather not spend more money than you must on utility bills _ or suck up more energy resources than makes good sense.
Start by reducing home energy use.
Spring is a fine time to start making changes, during an energy-use lull between winter's chill and summer's swelter.
An estimated 25 percent of the United States' enormous energy bill is attributable to households. That's a big chunk, so even small changes by a lot of people result in significant overall reductions.
Individually, those small changes often amount to only small dollar savings. But if homeowners make gradual improvements, energy experts say, eventually they could cut their energy bills by as much as 50 percent.
So, start small, plan bigger.
"Do the simplest, low-cost things up front, and get those out of the way," said Jennifer Thorne Amann, co-author of "Consumer Guide to Home Energy Savings."
Then put yourself in an energy-savings frame of mind as the bigger decisions come along, from appliance purchases and beyond, Amann said.
AUDIT ME
Assessing the situation at your house is Job 1. That could mean an audit by a professional, but this is not like an IRS audit. There are no fines, and nobody's going to jail. Doing an online self-audit is another good way to start.
A professional house audit will take a few hours to perform and cost several hundred dollars. Get ready to hear about the "building envelope." (See glossary.)
Sharla Riead and her company, Hathmore Technologies in Blue Springs, Mo., conducts residential energy audits. A professional can reliably identify the highest priority improvements that will save the most in energy costs, she said.
There might be leaks in your house's ductwork, for instance. About 20 percent of a home's heating and cooling inefficiencies are related to the ductwork. Or the auditor might determine your attic insulation is fine but insulation is lacking in the basement.
And safety is a concern, Riead said. While you want to plug up a leaky house, you also want to be certain it's properly ventilated.
Homeowners can get help choosing a residential energy auditor through the Metropolitan Energy Center. Call the Home Energy Information Line at 816-835-7593. Also ask about a new program available to Missouri customers of KCP&L. Homeowners can get a rebate for audit costs provided they make an improvement recommended in the audit.
PLUG HOLES
Ever thought of all the places your house leaks air? A fireplace, for example, is a big hole in your house, and dampers don't always seal tightly.
At a recent remodeling show, Kristin Riott of Bridging the Gap, a Kansas City environmental organization, had on display what looked like a big black plastic pillow. It was a fireplace plug.
Susan Brown of the Energy Savings Store in Prairie Village, Kan., said the stoppers cost less than $60, an inexpensive way to reduce air leakage when not using the fireplace.
Amann said people often jump quickly to the conclusion that fixing a leaky house requires new windows. Actually, she said, because replacing a house full of windows is so expensive, it's tough to recoup the money in energy savings.
But if new windows are in the budget, she said, spend the extra money it takes to get high-efficiency windows that have earned the Energy Star label.
Amann, who has a 140-year-old row house in Baltimore, said she has newer windows but they weren't installed well. Her solution was a trip to the hardware store for caulk and weather-stripping.
"We did that ourselves," she said. "That and installing door sweeps are really simple things."
Now, think smaller holes, such as places where pipes, wires and cables enter the house. Often those spots aren't insulated well.
When Jason Jones, KCP&L's energy solutions manager, tended to his drafty house, he used spray foam insulation in such small holes and gaps. The foam expands and fills the crevices.
George Phillips, KCP&L's energy efficiency manager, took aim at his electrical outlets, which are also leaky. He unscrewed the wall plates, placed thin foam pads from the hardware store around the outlets and replaced the plates.
POWER OFF, FOR REAL
If you still think on is on and off is off, you're living in another era, back when TVs warmed up. And most people owned just one.
Nowadays, our "plug-in loads," as the experts say, are way up: multiple televisions, video game equipment, several computers with associated contraptions, chargers for personal gadgetry and so on.
One problem is that we don't turn them off, although it might seem like we do, Amann said with a laugh.
"I'm laughing because I'm looking around my home office, and it's a mass of wires and cords and little gadgets everywhere," she said. "I try to tame the little lights, to make them go away."
Those "little lights" and remote controls are signs that the machines stay on, if only a little bit. And plugged-in chargers, even if not attached to a piece of equipment at the other end, still draw power.
The solution is to either unplug stuff at the wall or, more practically, plug electronic equipment into power strips and switch off the strip when the equipment isn't in use.
"You actually can save on your electric bill by turning off all those things when you're not using them," said Dustin Jensen with the Metropolitan Energy Center.
USE IT BETTER
With a change of habits, most people can use the equipment they have more efficiently.
But first, experts say, get rid of appliances you don't really need. Refrigerators are one of the biggest energy consumers in typical houses, Riott said, so plugged-in but unused or little-used fridges and freezers should be the first to go.
Stove tops and ovens, like anything that heats up quickly, are also energy-intensive, much more so than a microwave oven. One hour of cooking time in an electric oven, for instance, can cost about 19 cents, while 15 minutes in a microwave costs only 3 cents.
"I try to use my microwave as much as I can for cooking," Riott said.
On the cleanup side, studies show a fully loaded dishwasher uses less energy than washing the same amount by hand. Use the dishwasher's light cycle and air-dry setting to improve efficiency.
When picking out new appliances, electronics and other equipment, buy those that are Energy Star rated, which means they are certified by a government program to be as much as 50 percent more efficient than standard products.
Heating and cooling are a home's biggest energy expense, so every opportunity should be taken to manipulate the thermostat.
Ceiling fans are a good deal in the summer, allowing homeowners to raise the thermostat by as much as 4 degrees, which saves a bundle on air conditioning.
But don't forget to turn them off when you're not in the room, Amann said. The air movement cools the skin but doesn't actually cool the room, so leaving fans on in an empty room is a waste.
As for thermostats, programmable ones reduce energy use.
"The advantage with the `programmable' is that when you get back from work or wake up in the morning, it's already bringing the temperature back to your comfort point," Jensen said. "Plus, you don't have to think about it."
Jones of KCP&L said programmable thermostats offer savings of up to 20 percent in heating and cooling costs. KCP&L will install a free one, a value of about $300, for customers who allow the company to alter their air conditioners' cycle time during peak demand periods.
Most people know by now that compact fluorescent lamps are much cheaper to operate than incandescent bulbs. How much?
On average, 75 percent more efficient, said Jensen of the Metropolitan Energy Center. About 90 percent of the electricity consumed by an incandescent bulb is given off as heat and only about 10 percent as light. Compact fluorescents are the reverse, he said. They also last much longer, five years on average.
A couple of caveats: For lights on dimmers and in three-way lamps, look for CFLs that say they will work for those applications. And remember that fluorescents have a tiny amount of mercury in them and so must be taken to a recycling center rather than thrown away.
SOLAR, GEOTHERMAL
The beginning of this story notwithstanding, quite a few folks are investing in what might be called highfalutin, high-tech energy solutions.
Riott of Bridging the Gap installed a geothermal heat pump system at her Prairie Village home. Such systems use the constant temperature of the Earth to operate and are pricey to install, typically $16,000 to $25,000. But Riott expects to cut her heating and cooling costs by two-thirds.
And Brown of the Energy Savings Store, which has expertise in solar installations, noted that people who can't afford expensive solar panels are drawn to a relatively inexpensive device, the SolarSheat, to help warm their homes in the winter. The panels are placed on an exterior, south-facing wall and cost about $2,500. Brown has one and likes it.
"It keeps your furnace from having to turn on so much," she said. "It's for people looking for something just a little more exciting than the usual efficiency tips."
___
RESOURCES
Air Conditioning and Heating Repair Made Easy $59.97
http://www.howtorepairairconditioners.com/
"Consumer Guide to Home Energy Savings" by Jennifer Thorne Amann, Alex Wilson and Katie Ackerly, $16.95.
Conduct a free, Home Energy Saver do-it-yourself audit: hes.lbl.gov.
Metropolitan Energy Center has information on residential energy auditors and area energy programs (816-531-7283, kcenergy.org).
KCP&L's "Energy Optimizer" free programmable thermostat program (1-866-882-4429); the "Cool Homes" program for air-conditioner inspection and rebates (1-866-276-9303); and the "Energy Analyzer" online home energy survey (kcpl.com).
Rocky Mountain Institute's "Home Energy Briefs": rmi.org.
American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy's "Home Energy Checklist for Action": aceee.org.
"A Consumer's Guide to Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy" by the U.S. Department of Energy: eere.energy.gov.
___
GLOSSARY
Blower door: A procedure used in home energy audits. A powerful fan is attached to an exterior door, and air is pulled from the house. An energy auditor rates the house's leakage or "infiltration" and identifies specific trouble spots.
Building envelope: The house's roof, walls, windows and foundation, the parts that separate the inside from the outside.
Duct blaster: A test of a home's ductwork for leakage. An instrument detects leaks as air is forced into the duct system.
Energy Star: A product rating program by the EPA and the Energy Department. An Energy Star designation means the product uses 10 percent to 50 percent less energy and water than standard products. Some builders are constructing Energy Star houses.
Infiltration: Accidental air leakage from your house. The Energy Department estimates the sources of leaks this way: 31 percent from floors, walls and ceilings, 15 percent from ductwork, 14 percent from the fireplace, 13 percent from plumbing penetrations, 11 percent from doors, 10 percent from windows, 4 percent from fans, 2 percent from electrical outlets.
Phantom power: The electricity used to power light displays and instant-on features of otherwise turned-off computers, TVs and other electronic equipment. It also refers to the lost power when chargers are plugged into an outlet but aren't charging.
R-value: A measure of a material's resistance to the transfer of heat through it. R-values describe building insulation. The higher the number, the better the insulation. For instance, a professional might recommend R-49 in ceilings and R-26 in walls.
___
DUCTS AND INSULATION
Leaky houses waste energy. A home energy audit will check ductwork and insulation in walls, ceilings and basements.
WINDOWS
Replace them? Depends. New windows are expensive, and it's difficult to recoup the cost in energy savings. Other improvements might be a priority.
REFRIGERATOR
Get rid of that plugged-in but often unused one in the garage or basement. Look for Energy Star appliances and electronics when buying new.
WATER HEATER
A blanket on an old one could help. As for tankless or demand water heaters, they save energy because they don't store water. But flow might not be adequate in busy households doing multiple hot-water tasks at the same time.
ELECTRONICS
Computers, stereos, TVs and other devices only look like they're turned off. Most are on, at least a little bit, all the time. Use power strips to shut them down completely.
LIGHT BULBS
Compact fluorescents, of course, but get to know Kelvin. The K value on the package tells you the color temperature. For instance, about 2800 K is "soft white," similar to a 60W incandescent bulb.
CEILING FANS
They will help in the coming air-conditioning season, allowing you to raise the thermostat several degrees. They work by cooling you, not the room, so turn them off when you leave.
FURNACE AND AC
Together they're the energy-suckers in your house _ 40 percent or more of a home's energy use. The myth is the bigger the AC unit the better. Oversized units don't cool correctly and cost more to operate.
Tuesday, March 4, 2008
Find out where Your Utility Money Goes
A few weeks ago, I wrote about the huge difference between my electric bill and a neighbor's despite our similar lifestyles and apartments.
I subsequently arranged an onsite home audit, a free service FPL offers to its customers. The energy specialists examine your home, analyze your bill and target areas where you can save.
Here's what happened: Raudel Valdes and Gabriel Palacios, FPL energy management specialists, arrived at my home carrying a laptop and printer. The central air conditioning unit immediately caught their attention.
After a thorough examination and a series of tests, the team offered these conclusions:
Beware of dust: Particles near the thermostat, on the AC pipes and near the air ducts seriously compromise the unit's efficiency and accuracy.
Repair damaged coils: Disfigured coils on the main AC unit caused the air conditioner to run longer to reach the desired temperature.
Fill the gaps: Space around the air conditioning pipes and the gap between the ceiling and the air duct force the AC unit to eat up energy.
Insulate the water heater: To save space, our water heater is directly below the air conditioning unit. The heat from the water heater forces the air conditioner to work harder. The FPL team recommended insulating the main copper pipe that leads to the water heater. This step will contain heat coming out of the water heater and improve cooling system's efficiency.
Shop for a replacement: Our aging air conditioner is an energy hog. We could save a fortune by asking the landlord to replace the model. ''With age, every appliance starts using more power,'' Valdes said. FPL offers rebates to consumers installing approved AC systems at http://fpl.com/residential/savings/index.shtml.
On the warm winter day the FPL team visited, the specialists calculated we had an hourly electric bill of 50 cents, including 40 cents to power the air conditioner.
I subsequently arranged an onsite home audit, a free service FPL offers to its customers. The energy specialists examine your home, analyze your bill and target areas where you can save.
Here's what happened: Raudel Valdes and Gabriel Palacios, FPL energy management specialists, arrived at my home carrying a laptop and printer. The central air conditioning unit immediately caught their attention.
After a thorough examination and a series of tests, the team offered these conclusions:
Beware of dust: Particles near the thermostat, on the AC pipes and near the air ducts seriously compromise the unit's efficiency and accuracy.
Repair damaged coils: Disfigured coils on the main AC unit caused the air conditioner to run longer to reach the desired temperature.
Fill the gaps: Space around the air conditioning pipes and the gap between the ceiling and the air duct force the AC unit to eat up energy.
Insulate the water heater: To save space, our water heater is directly below the air conditioning unit. The heat from the water heater forces the air conditioner to work harder. The FPL team recommended insulating the main copper pipe that leads to the water heater. This step will contain heat coming out of the water heater and improve cooling system's efficiency.
Shop for a replacement: Our aging air conditioner is an energy hog. We could save a fortune by asking the landlord to replace the model. ''With age, every appliance starts using more power,'' Valdes said. FPL offers rebates to consumers installing approved AC systems at http://fpl.com/residential/savings/index.shtml.
On the warm winter day the FPL team visited, the specialists calculated we had an hourly electric bill of 50 cents, including 40 cents to power the air conditioner.
Summer Heat predicted by scientific source, sorta
Let's see what the Almanacs say about the Summer Heat and then you can go shopping for your bikini and avoid the rush.
Now that the Monadnock Region looks suspiciously like Siberia, local residents might raise an eyebrow at The Old Farmer’s Almanac’s prediction that 2008 would be the most sizzling year in a century.
But to all those thinking the almanac’s fictional weather guru Abe Weatherwise may have taken a hiatus into forecasting-failure, Editor Janice Stillman has a message: Not so fast.
“When we have so much snow, with such frequency, the perception is that, ‘Gee. This has been a long, cold winter, and in fact, it really hasn’t been,” she said. “The temperature has been, on average, above normal for most of the winter period.”
Before The 2008 Old Farmer’s Almanac event hit newsstands in September, Publisher John Pierce said, in a press release, that this year would be “Very warm, overall,” predicting the warming trend of the recent past would continue.
But in the Northeast, the 216 year-old Dublin publication also predicted, on average, “slightly above normal snowfall” — proven correct, if understated, in New Hampshire by Concord’s record amounts.
Still, despite the frosty weather, the almanac forecasted that in the Northeast, this winter would be “about a degree milder than normal.”
This has held true in both Concord and in Portland, Maine, according to National Weather Service Meteorologist James F. Brown, who said December through February temperatures in the two cities have been an average of about 1.1 and 1.6 degrees, respectively, above the norm.
Rival publication the Maine-based Farmers’ Almanac — a comparatively junior publication at about 190 years old, which uses the forecasts of the fictional Caleb Weatherbee — similarly predicted the white weather in the Northeast.
“(W)e do feel that overall Mother Nature is showing no mercy to the East,” Editor Peter E. Geiger said in a press release, which predicted this year’s winter would average as much as 3 degrees cooler down the Eastern Seaboard.
So how do these almanacs come up with their forecasts?
Both examine sunspots — flare-ups on the sun’s surface — among a host of other factors, according to Stillman and Geiger. Both publications also use secret, centuries’ old formulas to make weather predictions they claim to be, on average, at least 80 percent accurate. (The Farmers’ Almanac ups the ante with a claim of 80 to 85 percent, trumping The Old Farmer’s Almanac’s 80 percent, according to their Web sites).
And neither one takes into account the major monkey wrench in modern weather: Global warming.
“We don’t predict global warming. We predict the weather,” said Stillman, who explained that weather will, in turn, be affected by fossil fuels and other damage by the hand of man.
“For me, it’s not a factor,” Geiger said of global warming. “It’s an unknown, quite frankly.”
In the meantime, Stillman said regardless of reports of warming weather, solar cycles indicate the world may actually start to see cooler temperatures.
“This is the beginning of a cycle that could lead to a very long-term cool period,” she said, describing an easing of the solar activity she said leads to warmer weather.
Similarly, Geiger said “I think they’re probably correct that, in fact, there’s going to be some cooling. ... It goes counter to the global warming theory.”
Meanwhile, although the National Weather Service also makes long-range predictions — in the form of 30-, 60-, 90-day forecasts — James Brown said he doesn’t hold much stock in them
“We have trouble with three or four days, never mind 30, 60 or 90 days.” Brown said. “It’s weather. ... Things can go wrong and the forecast doesn’t come out right.”
Now that the Monadnock Region looks suspiciously like Siberia, local residents might raise an eyebrow at The Old Farmer’s Almanac’s prediction that 2008 would be the most sizzling year in a century.
But to all those thinking the almanac’s fictional weather guru Abe Weatherwise may have taken a hiatus into forecasting-failure, Editor Janice Stillman has a message: Not so fast.
“When we have so much snow, with such frequency, the perception is that, ‘Gee. This has been a long, cold winter, and in fact, it really hasn’t been,” she said. “The temperature has been, on average, above normal for most of the winter period.”
Before The 2008 Old Farmer’s Almanac event hit newsstands in September, Publisher John Pierce said, in a press release, that this year would be “Very warm, overall,” predicting the warming trend of the recent past would continue.
But in the Northeast, the 216 year-old Dublin publication also predicted, on average, “slightly above normal snowfall” — proven correct, if understated, in New Hampshire by Concord’s record amounts.
Still, despite the frosty weather, the almanac forecasted that in the Northeast, this winter would be “about a degree milder than normal.”
This has held true in both Concord and in Portland, Maine, according to National Weather Service Meteorologist James F. Brown, who said December through February temperatures in the two cities have been an average of about 1.1 and 1.6 degrees, respectively, above the norm.
Rival publication the Maine-based Farmers’ Almanac — a comparatively junior publication at about 190 years old, which uses the forecasts of the fictional Caleb Weatherbee — similarly predicted the white weather in the Northeast.
“(W)e do feel that overall Mother Nature is showing no mercy to the East,” Editor Peter E. Geiger said in a press release, which predicted this year’s winter would average as much as 3 degrees cooler down the Eastern Seaboard.
So how do these almanacs come up with their forecasts?
Both examine sunspots — flare-ups on the sun’s surface — among a host of other factors, according to Stillman and Geiger. Both publications also use secret, centuries’ old formulas to make weather predictions they claim to be, on average, at least 80 percent accurate. (The Farmers’ Almanac ups the ante with a claim of 80 to 85 percent, trumping The Old Farmer’s Almanac’s 80 percent, according to their Web sites).
And neither one takes into account the major monkey wrench in modern weather: Global warming.
“We don’t predict global warming. We predict the weather,” said Stillman, who explained that weather will, in turn, be affected by fossil fuels and other damage by the hand of man.
“For me, it’s not a factor,” Geiger said of global warming. “It’s an unknown, quite frankly.”
In the meantime, Stillman said regardless of reports of warming weather, solar cycles indicate the world may actually start to see cooler temperatures.
“This is the beginning of a cycle that could lead to a very long-term cool period,” she said, describing an easing of the solar activity she said leads to warmer weather.
Similarly, Geiger said “I think they’re probably correct that, in fact, there’s going to be some cooling. ... It goes counter to the global warming theory.”
Meanwhile, although the National Weather Service also makes long-range predictions — in the form of 30-, 60-, 90-day forecasts — James Brown said he doesn’t hold much stock in them
“We have trouble with three or four days, never mind 30, 60 or 90 days.” Brown said. “It’s weather. ... Things can go wrong and the forecast doesn’t come out right.”
Monday, March 3, 2008
When your HVAC unit fails what do you do
When that old, dependable household appliance sputters to a halt, you may be confronted with a classic dilemma.
INFORMATION, PLEASE!
First of all, you'll need the solid information provided by the machine's manufacturer. When you buy a home appliance, you receive—in most cases—a warranty card, an operations/use booklet, a list of repair centers, and a parts list. These should be kept on file with the sales receipt where you'll have easy access to them in the event that the appliance breaks down. (If you've inadvertently thrown away or lost your owner's manual, you can usually get another copy by writing to the manufacturer, identifying the model and serial number of your appliance.) Then, assuming the malfunctioning article's warranty has expired, start studying the owner's booklet. Find out whether the problem lies in the appliance itself or merely in the electrical circuit that provides its power. Sounds silly, but—in my experience, at least—about 10% of the time, the trouble's in the power source: A plug's loose in the outlet, or a circuit breaker has been tripped. (Or perhaps your electrical gadget has an internal switch that shuts it off in case of circuit overload. The service manual will provide instructions for restarting an appliance equipped with such a safety device.)
If this sort of thing isn't the source of the problem, take another good look at your owner's guide. Some manuals provide a checklist of "symptoms" to help you determine what the trouble is, and you may be able to fix the appliance yourself. Otherwise, this information plus a phone conversation with the repairperson can usually help you narrow down the diagnosis to one or two possibilities . . . and will give you an idea of the price range for the probable repairs.
THE BIG DECISION
You should now determine how many years of service life your machine has left. To do so, consult the accompanying table to compare the age of the appliance with its estimated life span (how long the model normally can be expected to function properly). Although the life expectancy of any appliance will vary slightly among different models and brands, the chart tells you how long an average one should last.
If, say, your room air conditioner is eight years old, it's got only four of its (estimated) 12 years remaining. But an eight-year-old sewing machine should have a lot of good years ahead of it . . . a full 16, to be exact.
In addition to the relative age and the estimated repair cost of your broken appliance, you'll need to know the cost of a new replacement for it. Then you can divide that purchase price by the machine's expected service life to find out the yearly cost of a newly bought appliance. For example, let's say that a new washing machine with the same features as your on-the-blink one would cost $290. Well, according to the table, its expected life span would be 12 years. Divide that 12 into $290, and you come out with a per annum price tag of $24.16.
The next step in your cost/benefits analysis is to prorate the estimated repair cost of your ailing machine. For instance—to continue our illustration—suppose you reported that the washing machine ran but didn't drain completely in the spin cycle, and the repairperson guessed that the water pump was to blame, giving you an estimate of $65 for parts and labor to fix it. Now, divide that repair fee into the number of years the machine probably has left. Since the average washer lasts for 12 years, and your broken one is already seven years old, it's got only five more good years left. When you divide the $65 repair bill by five, you'll find that the pro rata yearly cost of repair is $13.
Well, all you have to do now is compare the yearly cost of a new washing machine with the yearly cost of repairing your old model. In this case, the $24.16 annual cost of a new washer is considerably greater than the $13-per-year bill to have the old one fixed.
Of course, the decision you make (based on your initial cost/benefits analysis) can always be altered if the serviceperson turns in a higher repair estimate when he or she examines the appliance. Say, for instance, that the washing machine technician determines that the washer also needs a new transmission . . . so the total bill would now be $160. Even if you deduct the flat $30 service call fee (which was included in that total), you'll find that it's now more cost-effective to buy a new machine. After all, the old washer has only five functional years left and the repair bill is $130, which figures out to a yearly cost of $26 for keeping it. A new machine would cost only $24.16 a year, so buying it would save you about $2.00 a year (or over a 12-year period, approximately $24). In that case, buying a new machine is your best bet.
OTHER FACTORS
Although the per annum comparison explained above will give you the hard numerical data that you need in order to choose between repair and replacement, there are a few other non financial factors you'd do well to consider before making your final decision. As a result of the constant technological improvements made by appliance manufacturers, newer machines may have features that make them especially attractive to you. So if you'd like to purchase an appliance that has more operational features, uses less electricity, or is made to last longer than the old one, you'll want to take these factors into consideration when you decide whether the broken one is worth the trouble and expense of repairs.
Keeping a service record on your appliance can also help you make your decision: Up-to date records will tell you at a glance whether or not the machine has been generally reliable in the past. (Remember, the life expectancy figures in the table are only averages. Some machines do worse than that, some better.) If you haven't had good luck with a particular appliance, you may wish to replace it—possibly with another model or a different brand—even though your cost/benefits analysis suggests that repairing it would be less expensive.
Another option is exchanging a broken appliance: Some manufacturers of small appliances will give you the choice of having a broken item repaired or trading it in for a rebuilt model . . . as I found out a few months ago, when a two-year-old rechargeable calculator in my office broke.
I didn't want to replace the calculator, since the manufacturer no longer makes that particular model and some of its most attractive features aren't available on newer machines. By calling the nearest service center, however, I learned that I could either have the calculator repaired at the factory (a six-week undertaking) or buy a rebuilt model (which would be sent to me immediately). After mailing the broken machine to the service center, I received a refurbished one a week later. The total cost for the "new" machine including postage was $37.50 . . . slightly more than half of the original purchase price! Since the manufacturer provided a six-month warranty on the rebuilt machine (and since the average portable calculator lasts only a year in my office), this turned out to be a wise investment indeed.
THE ANSWER
The decision to repair or replace should not be a haphazard one . . . and it won't be when it's based on a cost/benefits analysis. Armed with this, you can quickly and easily decide whether "tis nobler" (or rather, "economical-er") to repair or to replace . . . and that is, after all, the question!
INFORMATION, PLEASE!
First of all, you'll need the solid information provided by the machine's manufacturer. When you buy a home appliance, you receive—in most cases—a warranty card, an operations/use booklet, a list of repair centers, and a parts list. These should be kept on file with the sales receipt where you'll have easy access to them in the event that the appliance breaks down. (If you've inadvertently thrown away or lost your owner's manual, you can usually get another copy by writing to the manufacturer, identifying the model and serial number of your appliance.) Then, assuming the malfunctioning article's warranty has expired, start studying the owner's booklet. Find out whether the problem lies in the appliance itself or merely in the electrical circuit that provides its power. Sounds silly, but—in my experience, at least—about 10% of the time, the trouble's in the power source: A plug's loose in the outlet, or a circuit breaker has been tripped. (Or perhaps your electrical gadget has an internal switch that shuts it off in case of circuit overload. The service manual will provide instructions for restarting an appliance equipped with such a safety device.)
If this sort of thing isn't the source of the problem, take another good look at your owner's guide. Some manuals provide a checklist of "symptoms" to help you determine what the trouble is, and you may be able to fix the appliance yourself. Otherwise, this information plus a phone conversation with the repairperson can usually help you narrow down the diagnosis to one or two possibilities . . . and will give you an idea of the price range for the probable repairs.
THE BIG DECISION
You should now determine how many years of service life your machine has left. To do so, consult the accompanying table to compare the age of the appliance with its estimated life span (how long the model normally can be expected to function properly). Although the life expectancy of any appliance will vary slightly among different models and brands, the chart tells you how long an average one should last.
If, say, your room air conditioner is eight years old, it's got only four of its (estimated) 12 years remaining. But an eight-year-old sewing machine should have a lot of good years ahead of it . . . a full 16, to be exact.
In addition to the relative age and the estimated repair cost of your broken appliance, you'll need to know the cost of a new replacement for it. Then you can divide that purchase price by the machine's expected service life to find out the yearly cost of a newly bought appliance. For example, let's say that a new washing machine with the same features as your on-the-blink one would cost $290. Well, according to the table, its expected life span would be 12 years. Divide that 12 into $290, and you come out with a per annum price tag of $24.16.
The next step in your cost/benefits analysis is to prorate the estimated repair cost of your ailing machine. For instance—to continue our illustration—suppose you reported that the washing machine ran but didn't drain completely in the spin cycle, and the repairperson guessed that the water pump was to blame, giving you an estimate of $65 for parts and labor to fix it. Now, divide that repair fee into the number of years the machine probably has left. Since the average washer lasts for 12 years, and your broken one is already seven years old, it's got only five more good years left. When you divide the $65 repair bill by five, you'll find that the pro rata yearly cost of repair is $13.
Well, all you have to do now is compare the yearly cost of a new washing machine with the yearly cost of repairing your old model. In this case, the $24.16 annual cost of a new washer is considerably greater than the $13-per-year bill to have the old one fixed.
Of course, the decision you make (based on your initial cost/benefits analysis) can always be altered if the serviceperson turns in a higher repair estimate when he or she examines the appliance. Say, for instance, that the washing machine technician determines that the washer also needs a new transmission . . . so the total bill would now be $160. Even if you deduct the flat $30 service call fee (which was included in that total), you'll find that it's now more cost-effective to buy a new machine. After all, the old washer has only five functional years left and the repair bill is $130, which figures out to a yearly cost of $26 for keeping it. A new machine would cost only $24.16 a year, so buying it would save you about $2.00 a year (or over a 12-year period, approximately $24). In that case, buying a new machine is your best bet.
OTHER FACTORS
Although the per annum comparison explained above will give you the hard numerical data that you need in order to choose between repair and replacement, there are a few other non financial factors you'd do well to consider before making your final decision. As a result of the constant technological improvements made by appliance manufacturers, newer machines may have features that make them especially attractive to you. So if you'd like to purchase an appliance that has more operational features, uses less electricity, or is made to last longer than the old one, you'll want to take these factors into consideration when you decide whether the broken one is worth the trouble and expense of repairs.
Keeping a service record on your appliance can also help you make your decision: Up-to date records will tell you at a glance whether or not the machine has been generally reliable in the past. (Remember, the life expectancy figures in the table are only averages. Some machines do worse than that, some better.) If you haven't had good luck with a particular appliance, you may wish to replace it—possibly with another model or a different brand—even though your cost/benefits analysis suggests that repairing it would be less expensive.
Another option is exchanging a broken appliance: Some manufacturers of small appliances will give you the choice of having a broken item repaired or trading it in for a rebuilt model . . . as I found out a few months ago, when a two-year-old rechargeable calculator in my office broke.
I didn't want to replace the calculator, since the manufacturer no longer makes that particular model and some of its most attractive features aren't available on newer machines. By calling the nearest service center, however, I learned that I could either have the calculator repaired at the factory (a six-week undertaking) or buy a rebuilt model (which would be sent to me immediately). After mailing the broken machine to the service center, I received a refurbished one a week later. The total cost for the "new" machine including postage was $37.50 . . . slightly more than half of the original purchase price! Since the manufacturer provided a six-month warranty on the rebuilt machine (and since the average portable calculator lasts only a year in my office), this turned out to be a wise investment indeed.
THE ANSWER
The decision to repair or replace should not be a haphazard one . . . and it won't be when it's based on a cost/benefits analysis. Armed with this, you can quickly and easily decide whether "tis nobler" (or rather, "economical-er") to repair or to replace . . . and that is, after all, the question!
Saturday, March 1, 2008
A typical day in the life of a Service Technician
Bob is a service technician who is well trained and nationally certified. However, he sometimes suffers from the same confusion that all technicians occasionally do — the facts that he gathers may or may not point to the obvious cause of the problem or the best solution. But Bob has something that no one else has. He recalls his long-time HVACR mentor and imagines him accompanying him as “Btu Buddy,” someone who reminds him to take time to stop and think before rushing to judgment, helping keep him on the right track, even with facts that are confusing.
Bob was called to a new customer’s home that had a 5-ton heat pump. The home was a large ranch style home, all on one floor. The customer met Bob at the door and she explained to him that her power bills were considerably higher than the same months last year. Bob looked at the comparison and agreed. The seasons were similar, but the bills for this year were much higher.
Bob then went to the indoor air handler under the house and looked at the filter. All seemed normal with them.
He then went to the outside unit and looked around and nothing stood out to be a problem. He then went inside and checked the outlet temperature at one of the room registers. The temperature was 120°F. He then went to the room thermostat and checked the thermostat to see if the strip heat was calling for heat and it was not. He was looking confused when Btu Buddy appeared and asked, “What is the problem, Bob?”
Enlarge this picture
Figure 1. This electric heat element is grounded to the frame of the furnace causing it to produce heat all of the time.
Bob explained what he knew and asked Btu Buddy for some advice.
Btu Buddy said, “Check for amp draw at the strip heaters on both lines going to the heaters. Remember the time you had a strip heater that was grounded and it was drawing current all the time (Figure 1)?”
Bob got his ammeter from the truck and went under the house and checked all three strip heaters and there was no current flow. Bob then asked, “Now what?”
Btu Buddy then said, “You have ruled out heat from any source except the heat pump refrigerant cycle, so the excess heat must be coming from the heat pump coil itself. With an air discharge temperature like you are getting, I would suggest that you have a reduced airflow. A heat pump should not have a discharge temperature above about 105° and this one is running 120°. Feel the liquid line and tell me if it feels normal.”
Bob put his hand on the liquid line and exclaimed, “Boy, that line is really hot. Normally it would be about hand temperature, but that could burn you if you held it for long.”
“What does that tell you, Bob?” asked Btu Buddy.
“It tells me that the air stream is not taking the heat out of the refrigerant condenser coil, which is the indoor coil in the heat cycle,” said Bob.
Btu Buddy then asked, “What could be some reasons for these symptoms?”
Bob answered, “The filter could be stopped up, the coil could be dirty, the fan may not be moving enough air, trash in the ductwork, insulation may have come loose and dropped down, supply registers or return grilles may be restricted are possibilities (Figure 2). The duct is insulated on the outside, so there shouldn’t be any insulation on the inside that could be loose and cause a restriction.”
Btu Buddy then said, “Then you must eliminate those possibilities one at the time. It may be a combination of several of those things.”
Bob said, “I never thought of it being more than one thing. Most all of the trouble calls that I have worked on get back to one problem.”
Btu Buddy said, “That is usually the case. Let’s go do some checking. The simplest things to check would be the supply registers and return air grilles. I noticed that this house has multiple returns, so be sure to check them all.”
Bob went from room to room and checked the airflow possibilities and told Btu Buddy, “I found several rooms that both the supply and return fixtures were shut off. I talked to the homeowner and she said she was trying to save money by not heating those rooms. I explained to her that closing those fixtures was at least part of the problem.”
Btu Buddy said, “Now check the liquid line temperature.”
Bob held the liquid line and said, “That is much better. I think I will check the temperature with my thermistor temperature tester.”
After the check, Bob said, “The temperature is still 107°. I am not sure that we have gotten to the bottom of this problem.”
Btu Buddy then said, “Good point, check further.”
Bob looked at the fan wheel and commented, “The fan wheel has a lot of dirt in the curves of the wheel. I think I will clean the wheel.”
“Good point, Bob”, said Btu Buddy. “If the fan wheel is dirty, where did the dirt come from?”
Bob responded, “It had to come through the filters. At some point the filters must have been really dirty and let dirt pass.”
Btu Buddy then said, “Most filters only get the larger particles of dirt; much of the fine dirt slips through. In the summer, the coil is wet and acts as a super filter. I would suspect that the coil is dirty also.”
Bob got set up and cleaned the fan wheel and the coil, and said, “I can’t believe how much dirt came out of the core of that coil. It is a good thing I had this pressure washer. It just kept pushing out dirt. That especially made detergent for coils really did the trick.”
When Bob got the system back together, he started the unit up and after it had run for about 20 minutes, he looked at the temperature of the liquid line and said, “The temperature is down to 100°. That works for me.”
Btu Buddy suggested, “Bob, you need to check the outlet air temperature now that you have made these changes.”
Bob went in the house and checked the air temperature at the same place he had checked before and the temperature was 100°.
Bob went back outside with Btu Buddy and told him the results and Btu Buddy said, “Now you have confidence that you got to the complete bottom of the situation. Be sure and talk to the homeowner and tell her what you did. Be sure and mention the outlet air temperatures will be lower, but that the system will be more efficient.”
Bob asked, “Why didn’t you suggest that we put gauges on the system and check the pressures?”
Btu Buddy explained, “You could have connected your gauges. However, we came to the same conclusions without installing gauges. Remember, every time you fasten your gauges, you let out some refrigerant. The system has a critical charge and you may alter the charge when connecting the gauges. Also, you always have the possibility of leaving a leak behind and then you would be called back to the same job later to add refrigerant.”
Bob then said, “None of that would be good.”
Bob talked to the homeowner and explained everything to her and she understood to leave all airflows alone.
When riding away, Bob asked Btu Buddy why high head pressure resulted in such a dramatic change in power consumption in a heat pump and Btu Buddy said, “Let’s go to lunch and talk about it. Bring your text book so we can discuss some examples.”
Bob was called to a new customer’s home that had a 5-ton heat pump. The home was a large ranch style home, all on one floor. The customer met Bob at the door and she explained to him that her power bills were considerably higher than the same months last year. Bob looked at the comparison and agreed. The seasons were similar, but the bills for this year were much higher.
Bob then went to the indoor air handler under the house and looked at the filter. All seemed normal with them.
He then went to the outside unit and looked around and nothing stood out to be a problem. He then went inside and checked the outlet temperature at one of the room registers. The temperature was 120°F. He then went to the room thermostat and checked the thermostat to see if the strip heat was calling for heat and it was not. He was looking confused when Btu Buddy appeared and asked, “What is the problem, Bob?”
Enlarge this picture
Figure 1. This electric heat element is grounded to the frame of the furnace causing it to produce heat all of the time.
Bob explained what he knew and asked Btu Buddy for some advice.
Btu Buddy said, “Check for amp draw at the strip heaters on both lines going to the heaters. Remember the time you had a strip heater that was grounded and it was drawing current all the time (Figure 1)?”
Bob got his ammeter from the truck and went under the house and checked all three strip heaters and there was no current flow. Bob then asked, “Now what?”
Btu Buddy then said, “You have ruled out heat from any source except the heat pump refrigerant cycle, so the excess heat must be coming from the heat pump coil itself. With an air discharge temperature like you are getting, I would suggest that you have a reduced airflow. A heat pump should not have a discharge temperature above about 105° and this one is running 120°. Feel the liquid line and tell me if it feels normal.”
Bob put his hand on the liquid line and exclaimed, “Boy, that line is really hot. Normally it would be about hand temperature, but that could burn you if you held it for long.”
“What does that tell you, Bob?” asked Btu Buddy.
“It tells me that the air stream is not taking the heat out of the refrigerant condenser coil, which is the indoor coil in the heat cycle,” said Bob.
Btu Buddy then asked, “What could be some reasons for these symptoms?”
Bob answered, “The filter could be stopped up, the coil could be dirty, the fan may not be moving enough air, trash in the ductwork, insulation may have come loose and dropped down, supply registers or return grilles may be restricted are possibilities (Figure 2). The duct is insulated on the outside, so there shouldn’t be any insulation on the inside that could be loose and cause a restriction.”
Btu Buddy then said, “Then you must eliminate those possibilities one at the time. It may be a combination of several of those things.”
Bob said, “I never thought of it being more than one thing. Most all of the trouble calls that I have worked on get back to one problem.”
Btu Buddy said, “That is usually the case. Let’s go do some checking. The simplest things to check would be the supply registers and return air grilles. I noticed that this house has multiple returns, so be sure to check them all.”
Bob went from room to room and checked the airflow possibilities and told Btu Buddy, “I found several rooms that both the supply and return fixtures were shut off. I talked to the homeowner and she said she was trying to save money by not heating those rooms. I explained to her that closing those fixtures was at least part of the problem.”
Btu Buddy said, “Now check the liquid line temperature.”
Bob held the liquid line and said, “That is much better. I think I will check the temperature with my thermistor temperature tester.”
After the check, Bob said, “The temperature is still 107°. I am not sure that we have gotten to the bottom of this problem.”
Btu Buddy then said, “Good point, check further.”
Bob looked at the fan wheel and commented, “The fan wheel has a lot of dirt in the curves of the wheel. I think I will clean the wheel.”
“Good point, Bob”, said Btu Buddy. “If the fan wheel is dirty, where did the dirt come from?”
Bob responded, “It had to come through the filters. At some point the filters must have been really dirty and let dirt pass.”
Btu Buddy then said, “Most filters only get the larger particles of dirt; much of the fine dirt slips through. In the summer, the coil is wet and acts as a super filter. I would suspect that the coil is dirty also.”
Bob got set up and cleaned the fan wheel and the coil, and said, “I can’t believe how much dirt came out of the core of that coil. It is a good thing I had this pressure washer. It just kept pushing out dirt. That especially made detergent for coils really did the trick.”
When Bob got the system back together, he started the unit up and after it had run for about 20 minutes, he looked at the temperature of the liquid line and said, “The temperature is down to 100°. That works for me.”
Btu Buddy suggested, “Bob, you need to check the outlet air temperature now that you have made these changes.”
Bob went in the house and checked the air temperature at the same place he had checked before and the temperature was 100°.
Bob went back outside with Btu Buddy and told him the results and Btu Buddy said, “Now you have confidence that you got to the complete bottom of the situation. Be sure and talk to the homeowner and tell her what you did. Be sure and mention the outlet air temperatures will be lower, but that the system will be more efficient.”
Bob asked, “Why didn’t you suggest that we put gauges on the system and check the pressures?”
Btu Buddy explained, “You could have connected your gauges. However, we came to the same conclusions without installing gauges. Remember, every time you fasten your gauges, you let out some refrigerant. The system has a critical charge and you may alter the charge when connecting the gauges. Also, you always have the possibility of leaving a leak behind and then you would be called back to the same job later to add refrigerant.”
Bob then said, “None of that would be good.”
Bob talked to the homeowner and explained everything to her and she understood to leave all airflows alone.
When riding away, Bob asked Btu Buddy why high head pressure resulted in such a dramatic change in power consumption in a heat pump and Btu Buddy said, “Let’s go to lunch and talk about it. Bring your text book so we can discuss some examples.”
Some typical Q & A
AC unit for 450 sqft clip this post email this post what is this?
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Posted by nickt (My Page) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 15:02
We are being told that the smallest AC units available are 1.5 ton. But, we only have 450 sq ft to cool (bedroom, bathroom closet suite w/ 9 ft ceilings and an office with a 11 ft vaulted ceiling). Would a 1.5 unit (placed in the attic space) be grossly inefficient? Can you use strategic placement of the thermostat to try to get more dehumidification and prevent short cycling? Can you just blow the extra air out an attic vent or something?
We have looked into mini-splits and are concerned that a single unit would not be able to cool all four spaces effectively. Multiple units would just be overkill.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: AC unit for 450 sqft clip this post email this post what is this?
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Posted by mikenew (My Page) on Sat, Mar 1, 08 at 8:19
It's hard for me to believe you can get all that in 450 sqft. there are multi zone mini splits that may help in this application, otherwise you can bring in some outside air and condition it to offset the oversizing
Frigidaire vs Lennox gas furnace clip this post email this post what is this?
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Posted by lynnt (My Page) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 21:48
I live in the Washington DC area, in a 50-year-old 2300-sq-foot rambler. A service rep from my HVAC company shut down my 20-year-old Kenmore 80 1000-btu gas furnace this afternoon. He had run a camera on a cable up the burner flues into the heat exchanger, and showed me what he said were cracks: lighter lines among the black soot and more than a bit of rust. Although the monoxide alarms around the house and in the furnace room have not complained, he said the furnace was unsafe and must be replaced immediately.
OK, I can buy that the poor thing is at end of life. Question #1, do you agree that it had to be shut down immediately, or is this a pressure sales tactic? He didn't cut any wires, just turned off the breaker and the thermostat; is it safe for me to turn it back on?
Question #2, the sales rep is offering the following replacements, all 1000-btu Frigidaires (which I understand are made by Nordyne). What do you think of these furnaces, and does the price sound reasonable? They include running the required new exhaust PVC for the 93%er, plus all include $350 for running about 20 feet of flexible ducting to a badly-served dining-room addition.
80% 2-stage FG6TA096C12B $3500
80% 2-stage variable FG6RA096CVBA $4410
93% 2-stage FG6TC080CVBB $4550
The same company will replace my aged gas hot-water heater with a new 50-gal model for about $900, and add a system humidifier for about $650 if I do these at the same time as the furnace work. Comments?
Another company prefers Lennox furnaces; they say all I need is a 90K BTU furnace due to the increased efficiency these days -- though the old furnace was sized before the dining-room addition was built. They say the 80% Lennoxes are sturdy and far more reliable than the fancy Energy Star models. They are proposing:
80% G40 $2300
90% G51V $3400
and will do my hot-water heater for $625 along with the furnace replacement.
Is this apples and oranges? I really appreciate your input, and apologize for the long writeup. Both companies have good records in the area, and both have been around for more than a decade.
Lynn
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RE: Frigidaire vs Lennox gas furnace clip this post email this post what is this?
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Posted by ryanhughes (My Page) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 22:56
The Lennox prices sound a bit low. Make sure you know what you're getting. Get all of it in writing: parts, materials, warranty, permit, etc. etc. Both brands are fine in my opinion. You really aren't comparing apples to apples; you have a "builder" Lennox or a SINGLE stage Lennox (I think the G51V is a good one--variable speed, 92.1% AFUE, etc.). The Frigidaire units are dual stage, which provides more comfort (low stage and high stage).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: Frigidaire vs Lennox gas furnace clip this post email this post what is this?
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Posted by mikenew (My Page) on Sat, Mar 1, 08 at 8:30
The tech had to shut you down for liability reasons but your not going to endanger your family by turning your heat on it is physically impossible for combustion product to get in your airstream in that furnace as the indoor air passing through your heat exchanger is positive pressure the worry is your indoor air making it into the combustion chamber and causing the flame to rollout but there should be safeties in place to shut down if that happens
Manual 'J' and Foam Insulation clip this post email this post what is this?
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Posted by lsufan (My Page) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 21:46
New house under construction. Live in South Louisiana. Most windows on North side of home. Foam under the roof deck(5-6 inches) and in the walls(3-4 inches) of a two story 6000 sq. ft. home. Manual J performed by several HVAC contractors...all provide for 5 ac units (varying tonnage)for a total tonnage of 16-18 tons! Told that the Manual J program does not always take into account the significance of the foam insulation....told program makes no allowance for anything with R value greater than 19.
Told by foam contractor that 16-18 tons of ac way high...suggest we could get away with as little as 6-8 tons. BTW, going with American Standard 18 SEER units with variable speed handlers.
What gives? Would think that we could get away with much less tonnage and number of units.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Posted by mikenew (My Page) on Sat, Mar 1, 08 at 8:15
Manual J only knows what it is told and they don't know what to tell there is an R value to your structure period and that is what you need to know the foam contractor needs to talk to your HVAC guys. Kinda discouraging that five companies can't figure that out, SCARY!
do you think it's possible to keep the same refriderant lines that run from the condensor and air handler? they run inside interior walls and there is no real access to the crawl space on second floor where the handler is from an exterior wall.
Thanks for your help.
Both in and out need to go. Best to let a pro do it but maybe he would let you help him! Maybe let you wire it?
__________________
IAQ/HVAC for the past 13 years and still learning
Replacing an old condensor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, I am curious...I have 2 trane condesors outside from 1988. One still works fine, however the other can't hold a refridgerant charge for more than a month. Was told that we probably had to replace the unit. Was wondering if that just meant just the unit outside or if the air handlers inside needed replacing as well. Also is that something I could do myself or would it be wise to have a professional do it? Thanks for any help, as it is very appreciated.
mike n
AC Repair AC Coil Leaking
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you replace the condensor the evaporator definitely needs to go as this is probably leaking also and the efficiencies of the equipment will not match and there are warranty issues also. If the lineset is properly sized there is no reason you can't keep it but it is possible it's not the right size make sure you check it yourself
mike n
If the charge is leaking out in a month then the leak is freakin' huge and it should be pretty easy to find it. They said you would 'probably' have to replace it? Did they locate the leak?
Depending on where the leak is it could be repairable easily enough if it's on exposed copper. (big IF) The thing is it will still cost you an unpleasant ammount of cash to do it.
...so I'm going to agree with the guys below here...
If the thing is 20 years old consider this an early wake up call before summer hits and just try and figure out how your going to pay for a new unit. Replace the inside and outside unit. No point in having a system that old and you pay to have the condenser replaced only to find next year your going to have to have the air handler replaced when you could have saved a few bucks now on trip time and labor and had it all done at once.
The thing with fixing a leak on an old system is that it stands a good chance of happening again :/
Michael
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Posted by nickt (My Page) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 15:02
We are being told that the smallest AC units available are 1.5 ton. But, we only have 450 sq ft to cool (bedroom, bathroom closet suite w/ 9 ft ceilings and an office with a 11 ft vaulted ceiling). Would a 1.5 unit (placed in the attic space) be grossly inefficient? Can you use strategic placement of the thermostat to try to get more dehumidification and prevent short cycling? Can you just blow the extra air out an attic vent or something?
We have looked into mini-splits and are concerned that a single unit would not be able to cool all four spaces effectively. Multiple units would just be overkill.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: AC unit for 450 sqft clip this post email this post what is this?
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Posted by mikenew (My Page) on Sat, Mar 1, 08 at 8:19
It's hard for me to believe you can get all that in 450 sqft. there are multi zone mini splits that may help in this application, otherwise you can bring in some outside air and condition it to offset the oversizing
Frigidaire vs Lennox gas furnace clip this post email this post what is this?
see most clipped and recent clippings
Posted by lynnt (My Page) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 21:48
I live in the Washington DC area, in a 50-year-old 2300-sq-foot rambler. A service rep from my HVAC company shut down my 20-year-old Kenmore 80 1000-btu gas furnace this afternoon. He had run a camera on a cable up the burner flues into the heat exchanger, and showed me what he said were cracks: lighter lines among the black soot and more than a bit of rust. Although the monoxide alarms around the house and in the furnace room have not complained, he said the furnace was unsafe and must be replaced immediately.
OK, I can buy that the poor thing is at end of life. Question #1, do you agree that it had to be shut down immediately, or is this a pressure sales tactic? He didn't cut any wires, just turned off the breaker and the thermostat; is it safe for me to turn it back on?
Question #2, the sales rep is offering the following replacements, all 1000-btu Frigidaires (which I understand are made by Nordyne). What do you think of these furnaces, and does the price sound reasonable? They include running the required new exhaust PVC for the 93%er, plus all include $350 for running about 20 feet of flexible ducting to a badly-served dining-room addition.
80% 2-stage FG6TA096C12B $3500
80% 2-stage variable FG6RA096CVBA $4410
93% 2-stage FG6TC080CVBB $4550
The same company will replace my aged gas hot-water heater with a new 50-gal model for about $900, and add a system humidifier for about $650 if I do these at the same time as the furnace work. Comments?
Another company prefers Lennox furnaces; they say all I need is a 90K BTU furnace due to the increased efficiency these days -- though the old furnace was sized before the dining-room addition was built. They say the 80% Lennoxes are sturdy and far more reliable than the fancy Energy Star models. They are proposing:
80% G40 $2300
90% G51V $3400
and will do my hot-water heater for $625 along with the furnace replacement.
Is this apples and oranges? I really appreciate your input, and apologize for the long writeup. Both companies have good records in the area, and both have been around for more than a decade.
Lynn
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Frigidaire vs Lennox gas furnace clip this post email this post what is this?
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Posted by ryanhughes (My Page) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 22:56
The Lennox prices sound a bit low. Make sure you know what you're getting. Get all of it in writing: parts, materials, warranty, permit, etc. etc. Both brands are fine in my opinion. You really aren't comparing apples to apples; you have a "builder" Lennox or a SINGLE stage Lennox (I think the G51V is a good one--variable speed, 92.1% AFUE, etc.). The Frigidaire units are dual stage, which provides more comfort (low stage and high stage).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: Frigidaire vs Lennox gas furnace clip this post email this post what is this?
see most clipped and recent clippings
Posted by mikenew (My Page) on Sat, Mar 1, 08 at 8:30
The tech had to shut you down for liability reasons but your not going to endanger your family by turning your heat on it is physically impossible for combustion product to get in your airstream in that furnace as the indoor air passing through your heat exchanger is positive pressure the worry is your indoor air making it into the combustion chamber and causing the flame to rollout but there should be safeties in place to shut down if that happens
Manual 'J' and Foam Insulation clip this post email this post what is this?
see most clipped and recent clippings
Posted by lsufan (My Page) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 21:46
New house under construction. Live in South Louisiana. Most windows on North side of home. Foam under the roof deck(5-6 inches) and in the walls(3-4 inches) of a two story 6000 sq. ft. home. Manual J performed by several HVAC contractors...all provide for 5 ac units (varying tonnage)for a total tonnage of 16-18 tons! Told that the Manual J program does not always take into account the significance of the foam insulation....told program makes no allowance for anything with R value greater than 19.
Told by foam contractor that 16-18 tons of ac way high...suggest we could get away with as little as 6-8 tons. BTW, going with American Standard 18 SEER units with variable speed handlers.
What gives? Would think that we could get away with much less tonnage and number of units.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Manual 'J' and Foam Insulation clip this post email this post what is this?
see most clipped and recent clippings
Posted by mikenew (My Page) on Sat, Mar 1, 08 at 8:15
Manual J only knows what it is told and they don't know what to tell there is an R value to your structure period and that is what you need to know the foam contractor needs to talk to your HVAC guys. Kinda discouraging that five companies can't figure that out, SCARY!
do you think it's possible to keep the same refriderant lines that run from the condensor and air handler? they run inside interior walls and there is no real access to the crawl space on second floor where the handler is from an exterior wall.
Thanks for your help.
Both in and out need to go. Best to let a pro do it but maybe he would let you help him! Maybe let you wire it?
__________________
IAQ/HVAC for the past 13 years and still learning
Replacing an old condensor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, I am curious...I have 2 trane condesors outside from 1988. One still works fine, however the other can't hold a refridgerant charge for more than a month. Was told that we probably had to replace the unit. Was wondering if that just meant just the unit outside or if the air handlers inside needed replacing as well. Also is that something I could do myself or would it be wise to have a professional do it? Thanks for any help, as it is very appreciated.
mike n
AC Repair AC Coil Leaking
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you replace the condensor the evaporator definitely needs to go as this is probably leaking also and the efficiencies of the equipment will not match and there are warranty issues also. If the lineset is properly sized there is no reason you can't keep it but it is possible it's not the right size make sure you check it yourself
mike n
If the charge is leaking out in a month then the leak is freakin' huge and it should be pretty easy to find it. They said you would 'probably' have to replace it? Did they locate the leak?
Depending on where the leak is it could be repairable easily enough if it's on exposed copper. (big IF) The thing is it will still cost you an unpleasant ammount of cash to do it.
...so I'm going to agree with the guys below here...
If the thing is 20 years old consider this an early wake up call before summer hits and just try and figure out how your going to pay for a new unit. Replace the inside and outside unit. No point in having a system that old and you pay to have the condenser replaced only to find next year your going to have to have the air handler replaced when you could have saved a few bucks now on trip time and labor and had it all done at once.
The thing with fixing a leak on an old system is that it stands a good chance of happening again :/
Michael
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